My first discussion post! I’m writing this week’s Substack piece on this topic re-started by the conversation around Taylor Swift and Brittany Mahomes. Mahomes is an active Trump supporter, while Taylor Swift famously rarely gets involved in politics (and I would argue only does when it directly impacts her) but has on occasion supported Democratic candidates.
So, can we and should we be friends with people on ‘the other side’? Is this comparable in Australia, or a different conversation entirely in a Trumpian time? Where is the line between engaging with those we disagree with and humouring people who are steeped in racism, misogyny and bigotry? When have you been able to change someone’s mind and when have you walked away from a relationship because of politics? Do you believe there even should be ‘sides’? Is it fair that women are being criticised but not their male partners in this instance?
If this works, I would love to start doing a weekly discussion post and a separate column. Apologies for my recent inconsistency in posts, I will be making it up to you with more frequent posts for the rest of the year. Please leave any thoughts below!
This is a very nuanced discussion and not black and white. But I think put plainly as Mattxiv said, if the other person political view is about the oppression and reject of a group of people's human rights then it's not about political difference, it's about human rights. I don't think if someone supported Trump in the US, One Nation in Aus that their view is just "conservative" it think it's the fundamentals of white supremacism. There is no benefit in political discussion to someone with that view and so therefore I do not think they deserve our time and our friendship. We don't know Brittany Mahone's reasons for supporting Trump but because she is public about it, it's simply inexcusable for Taylor to be supporting her in this time. Politics used to be about different ideas, but now in the US it is challenging basic human rights and that is not something that is political. I believe Australia is different for now (except for the few extreme parties) mostly because our two parties are so similar that it rarely ever makes a difference who is in charge on the issues that are most important.
I think there’s something to be said for interacting with people outside of your own echo chamber. I wouldn’t abide racism, bigotry and misogyny from a friend and would call them out - but I don’t want to necessarily shut out anyway who doesn’t have the same views I do.
If my husband had a “work husband” and I didn’t agree with his wife’s political beliefs from a moral perspective, would I politely engage with her at work events, even laugh with her? Probably. Go out for dinner with her? Probably. Would I invite her into my inner circle? No. We can’t claim to know the depths and complexities of the relationships of Travis and Taylor and the people around them. I also don’t think it’s fair to expect Taylor to publicly comment, knowing how this would adversely affect her partner, his employer and his career. None of the high profile men connected to this have been asked to publicly comment or had their morality questioned- this reeks of misogyny. Life, social relationships and just existing in this world is so nuanced and complicated that expecting anyone to always do the objectively “right thing” is completely unrealistic and simply further stokes division. More empathy, kindness and comfort with sitting in the weeds is so needed at this time in history.
I agree so much with this! Was the alternative for Taylor to be rude and completely ignore her? She would be criticised for that too. This is just so complex!
I too think – like most things - politics is a very nuanced subject, and Australia (although two party preferred) is not comparable to America (…yet).
Individually we should be allowed to eb and flow between parties, based on those whose Policies we align the most with, at any given time.
Personally, I like to be challenged on my opinions and beliefs, as it requires me to either become educated in a perspective outside my algorithm OR to further confirms my opinion with additional resources and knowledge – in either circumstance, I am enabled the opportunity to learn more than I would without such opposition.
I like to think it does the same for the other person within the conversation.
The evolving of opinions (i.e. equality in all domains) is crucial to the development of society and we need to be cautious not to staunchly pigeon hole ourselves into unwavering support of one party or another, so to avoid following in Americas political footsteps.
A difference in opinion does not always equate to a difference in values. But it should not equate to disrespect – you can disagree with someone without being rude. And perhaps that’s where we should draw the line of befriend “people on the other side”
I don’t agree with every word my parents say. But I know that they are good people, and are a product of the environment in which they grew up. Which is the case for most people - you exist “in the context of all in which you live and what came before you”, right?
10 years ago, I wrote about rape culture and had to defend my opinion more than I ever would have thought necessary, mostly among women who were in the age bracket of 45-60 at the time. It was only through conversations with them, following the post, that they were able to change their mind about “women who make sexual harassment claims up to get money” – for most realised they too had been victims of sexual harassment throughout their lives, without having ever been comfortable to admit it because “its just the way it was at the time”
It was an important conversation then. It was an important conversation 20 years before. And it will remain an important conversation for the foreseeable future. But avoiding such a topic due to disagreement does not allow progression from either side.
Friendships requires more than agreement at all times. They require understanding and compassion, empathy and forgiveness. These things can’t always be established in an environment that does not spark healthy debate.
Perhaps that’s where our politicians let us down most, rather than getting in to office and doing the jobs the country elected them to do – they spend more time creating “sides” rather than focusing on meeting in the middle, and finding a solution that appeases the majority of those whose taxes pay their wage.
I just can't imagine being friends with someone who likes a politician who is so hateful. It's like being friends with a Dutton or Hanson supporter. It's a hard line for me. And when she sat there is miss Americana doco and said "I need to be on the right side of history" and is now hugging, inviting this woman to her house and are having regular dinners... I can't help but feel she didn't mean what she said then.
Brittany is also a SA apologist (her brother in law was the offender) and swift herself has been assaulted, went to trial to prove it happened and sat up in a concert and said 'to all victims, I believe you' and got a times article piece written about it... What is she standing for?
(I do not expect celebs to talk about politics and fix world issues for us. But I dont understand the absolute NEED for her to speak up and see the error in her ways and why she believed she should be vocal, to now -even before venice- just doing the absolute opposite of that. Why push your need to speak out at all??)
I recently moved into a new apartment, and have since learned that my new housemate (who I didn't know prior) and I are at completely OPPOSITE sides of beliefs on nearly every thing. They hate "fourth wave feminism", is "pro-guns", is seemingly "pro-trump", disagrees with affirmative action, voted no to The Voice... the list goes on. I've engaged in discourse on all of the above with them, but I can't change their mind. And I have to protect my peace as well... literally this is now my home.
Will we be friends? No. We fundamentally behave and engage in conversation in ways aligned to our own beliefs. But, will I continue to live peacefully and attempt to bond over our shared love of baking... yes.
Updating my statement - what I can control is being in a week-to-week rent situation and getting my ducks together to move out. After 2 weeks turns out there is a limit to bigotedness that I can reach, and it has been reached. Appreciate everyone’s 2 cents on this thread. Definitely helped me come to my decision to move out
It is certainly important to be willing to interact with the full spectrum of people and politics.
Is it necessary to be frends with people who are on the entire opposite end of the politic spectrum? Absolutely not. A person who supports the political beliefs of Trump/Morrison/Dutton has an entirely different ethical basis to their world-view than I do. That mis-alignment means that they will never be able to understand me, and gives no chance of a close friendship anyway. My peace is more important, and I am only interested in friendships with inherently good people and those trying to grow.
The echo chamber is a dangerous place to be, not only do we starve ourselves of opportunity for growth and further learning, we reduce to likelihood of educating someone who really needs to hear the 'other side'. As a swing voter, it's also how I take in information to help me either strengthen or change my stance on topics. I absolutely have friends (and family) on other sides. Do I engage with empathy and try and to understand why and how, absolutely. Would I happily go to dinner with a racist or misogynist etc. absolutely not.
I am definitely just repeating what others have said… but I think that you can be friends with people and have differing opinions about important things, but when it comes to people’s rights… I would find it hard to be a friend to or even an acquaintance of someone who was ok with people’s human rights being oppressed. I also think that Auspol is different to USpol. There are definitely extremist elements in Australia but I don’t think we are as polarised as the US.
As a personal example, I used to attend a lot of “progressive” kinds of events where I got to know people who were supposedly supportive of the same causes that I was – I played in a band that sang about social and environmental justice, refugee rights etc.
There was a certain man in this crowd who everyone seemed to worship, because he was so “compassionate” and “loving”… you might be able to see where this story is going hahaha
After a few years of knowing this man, he started to casually post anti-feminist content on social media. It all started with a post announcing he would never go on Bumble because “the feminists have completely terrified dudes into submission… it’s my right to make the first move” or some other similar BS.
This man is now a full-blown conspiracy theorist / Trump supporter (despite living in Australia). It baffles me that so many people from that “progressive” crowd are still friends with this man, when he now makes me feel so unsafe.
This is a very nuanced discussion and not black and white. But I think put plainly as Mattxiv said, if the other person political view is about the oppression and reject of a group of people's human rights then it's not about political difference, it's about human rights. I don't think if someone supported Trump in the US, One Nation in Aus that their view is just "conservative" it think it's the fundamentals of white supremacism. There is no benefit in political discussion to someone with that view and so therefore I do not think they deserve our time and our friendship. We don't know Brittany Mahone's reasons for supporting Trump but because she is public about it, it's simply inexcusable for Taylor to be supporting her in this time. Politics used to be about different ideas, but now in the US it is challenging basic human rights and that is not something that is political. I believe Australia is different for now (except for the few extreme parties) mostly because our two parties are so similar that it rarely ever makes a difference who is in charge on the issues that are most important.
I think there’s something to be said for interacting with people outside of your own echo chamber. I wouldn’t abide racism, bigotry and misogyny from a friend and would call them out - but I don’t want to necessarily shut out anyway who doesn’t have the same views I do.
If my husband had a “work husband” and I didn’t agree with his wife’s political beliefs from a moral perspective, would I politely engage with her at work events, even laugh with her? Probably. Go out for dinner with her? Probably. Would I invite her into my inner circle? No. We can’t claim to know the depths and complexities of the relationships of Travis and Taylor and the people around them. I also don’t think it’s fair to expect Taylor to publicly comment, knowing how this would adversely affect her partner, his employer and his career. None of the high profile men connected to this have been asked to publicly comment or had their morality questioned- this reeks of misogyny. Life, social relationships and just existing in this world is so nuanced and complicated that expecting anyone to always do the objectively “right thing” is completely unrealistic and simply further stokes division. More empathy, kindness and comfort with sitting in the weeds is so needed at this time in history.
I agree so much with this! Was the alternative for Taylor to be rude and completely ignore her? She would be criticised for that too. This is just so complex!
I too think – like most things - politics is a very nuanced subject, and Australia (although two party preferred) is not comparable to America (…yet).
Individually we should be allowed to eb and flow between parties, based on those whose Policies we align the most with, at any given time.
Personally, I like to be challenged on my opinions and beliefs, as it requires me to either become educated in a perspective outside my algorithm OR to further confirms my opinion with additional resources and knowledge – in either circumstance, I am enabled the opportunity to learn more than I would without such opposition.
I like to think it does the same for the other person within the conversation.
The evolving of opinions (i.e. equality in all domains) is crucial to the development of society and we need to be cautious not to staunchly pigeon hole ourselves into unwavering support of one party or another, so to avoid following in Americas political footsteps.
A difference in opinion does not always equate to a difference in values. But it should not equate to disrespect – you can disagree with someone without being rude. And perhaps that’s where we should draw the line of befriend “people on the other side”
I don’t agree with every word my parents say. But I know that they are good people, and are a product of the environment in which they grew up. Which is the case for most people - you exist “in the context of all in which you live and what came before you”, right?
10 years ago, I wrote about rape culture and had to defend my opinion more than I ever would have thought necessary, mostly among women who were in the age bracket of 45-60 at the time. It was only through conversations with them, following the post, that they were able to change their mind about “women who make sexual harassment claims up to get money” – for most realised they too had been victims of sexual harassment throughout their lives, without having ever been comfortable to admit it because “its just the way it was at the time”
It was an important conversation then. It was an important conversation 20 years before. And it will remain an important conversation for the foreseeable future. But avoiding such a topic due to disagreement does not allow progression from either side.
Friendships requires more than agreement at all times. They require understanding and compassion, empathy and forgiveness. These things can’t always be established in an environment that does not spark healthy debate.
Perhaps that’s where our politicians let us down most, rather than getting in to office and doing the jobs the country elected them to do – they spend more time creating “sides” rather than focusing on meeting in the middle, and finding a solution that appeases the majority of those whose taxes pay their wage.
I just can't imagine being friends with someone who likes a politician who is so hateful. It's like being friends with a Dutton or Hanson supporter. It's a hard line for me. And when she sat there is miss Americana doco and said "I need to be on the right side of history" and is now hugging, inviting this woman to her house and are having regular dinners... I can't help but feel she didn't mean what she said then.
Brittany is also a SA apologist (her brother in law was the offender) and swift herself has been assaulted, went to trial to prove it happened and sat up in a concert and said 'to all victims, I believe you' and got a times article piece written about it... What is she standing for?
(I do not expect celebs to talk about politics and fix world issues for us. But I dont understand the absolute NEED for her to speak up and see the error in her ways and why she believed she should be vocal, to now -even before venice- just doing the absolute opposite of that. Why push your need to speak out at all??)
I recently moved into a new apartment, and have since learned that my new housemate (who I didn't know prior) and I are at completely OPPOSITE sides of beliefs on nearly every thing. They hate "fourth wave feminism", is "pro-guns", is seemingly "pro-trump", disagrees with affirmative action, voted no to The Voice... the list goes on. I've engaged in discourse on all of the above with them, but I can't change their mind. And I have to protect my peace as well... literally this is now my home.
Will we be friends? No. We fundamentally behave and engage in conversation in ways aligned to our own beliefs. But, will I continue to live peacefully and attempt to bond over our shared love of baking... yes.
Updating my statement - what I can control is being in a week-to-week rent situation and getting my ducks together to move out. After 2 weeks turns out there is a limit to bigotedness that I can reach, and it has been reached. Appreciate everyone’s 2 cents on this thread. Definitely helped me come to my decision to move out
It is certainly important to be willing to interact with the full spectrum of people and politics.
Is it necessary to be frends with people who are on the entire opposite end of the politic spectrum? Absolutely not. A person who supports the political beliefs of Trump/Morrison/Dutton has an entirely different ethical basis to their world-view than I do. That mis-alignment means that they will never be able to understand me, and gives no chance of a close friendship anyway. My peace is more important, and I am only interested in friendships with inherently good people and those trying to grow.
The echo chamber is a dangerous place to be, not only do we starve ourselves of opportunity for growth and further learning, we reduce to likelihood of educating someone who really needs to hear the 'other side'. As a swing voter, it's also how I take in information to help me either strengthen or change my stance on topics. I absolutely have friends (and family) on other sides. Do I engage with empathy and try and to understand why and how, absolutely. Would I happily go to dinner with a racist or misogynist etc. absolutely not.
I am definitely just repeating what others have said… but I think that you can be friends with people and have differing opinions about important things, but when it comes to people’s rights… I would find it hard to be a friend to or even an acquaintance of someone who was ok with people’s human rights being oppressed. I also think that Auspol is different to USpol. There are definitely extremist elements in Australia but I don’t think we are as polarised as the US.
As a personal example, I used to attend a lot of “progressive” kinds of events where I got to know people who were supposedly supportive of the same causes that I was – I played in a band that sang about social and environmental justice, refugee rights etc.
There was a certain man in this crowd who everyone seemed to worship, because he was so “compassionate” and “loving”… you might be able to see where this story is going hahaha
After a few years of knowing this man, he started to casually post anti-feminist content on social media. It all started with a post announcing he would never go on Bumble because “the feminists have completely terrified dudes into submission… it’s my right to make the first move” or some other similar BS.
This man is now a full-blown conspiracy theorist / Trump supporter (despite living in Australia). It baffles me that so many people from that “progressive” crowd are still friends with this man, when he now makes me feel so unsafe.